Can only the spiritual seed which we have sown here in earthly life be developed in the Beyond? And then secondly, when we have made no effort to develop current ability, can we develop then in the Beyond?

    It will take a longer time there as compared with here. What will take years to do There you can do here in months. That's the difference. The seed cannot be destroyed but it can be developed here more quickly than there in the Beyond. So in man body we have got more glimpses. And in those cases (in the Beyond), only that seed will grow in which you have not the slightest attachment to the world. Otherwise you'll have to come back as the man body and develop It. Do you follow? A seed has been sown. For instance in those who have been initiated, that seed has been sown. It is growing. If you develop here, by coming in contact with That God Power and all other attachments are cut off, then you are not to return. You'll have to develop there; but in a longer time as compared with here. If the seed is sown and you've got hundreds of attachments here, then you'll have to come back as man; not below the category of man, that's the point. Scriptures say something but they're very brief; there are many side issues. Now what I tell you appeals to common sense. The man who has got no attachments may not return; the seed will grow but it will take longer. If a man has attachments, too many attachments, give and take, here - there, he'll have to come back. The seed has not grown. If the seed had grown, that would have helped in becoming unattached. Do you follow? If the seed is grown here, it is just like a canker in the timber. Outwardly it appears all right, but inside it is all eaten up, you see. Just the same, the seed is sown. If you've developed, then you'll be unattached in the inner way. It will help in that way. Now that point is clear, is it not? That's good. So that is why it is said: If you're a learned man at the time of leaving the body, you'll remain learned. You cannot become a Saint by coming out of this room. You are what you are here. By simply going out of the body, you cannot become a Saint. You are what you have developed. I think that appeals to common sense. Does it not ... I ask you? Does what I'm telling you appeal to common sense?

Yes.

    What else, please? Yes?

It is said in Spiritual Gems by Master Baba Sawan Singh that if one cannot quiet the mind by just sitting, it should be done by sheer force. Now when He said, "by sheer force'; that is not sitting without any effort, so there's a contradiction there.

    In that book, you read some excerpts from letters which were originally given in the Punjabi language, not in English. I don't vouchsafe the correctness of the translation done; do you follow? I've got those real letters with me, copies, true copies which our Master gave to me. I've got more copies of them. So that letter "you must sit by sheer force" was written to one man who said, "I cannot sit." "Well, you must sit; I order you!" It was for the disciple's sake, you see? Some day you may say, "I cannot sit." And I will say, "Well, you must put in more time whether you want it or not." That is what He meant. But if you are under compulsion there, your whole effort is in the strengthening of the ego; how can you go on? The right way of doing meditation is to repose ... So books do not give us true things, and moreover, when these books are translated into another language, the true things cannot be properly interpreted. Master gave those original letters to me only, nobody else. And I kept four copies with me and returned the others in a very beautiful casket to the Master. They know the contents. There is no difference of opinion. He said, "Here's the man who can repeat my words, and tell us what we are to do." By adopting their very virtues, you become Saints in their eyes. I wish each of you to begin to live by their virtues. You will have transvision.
    So history usually shows when Masters leave, two things start. The one who is given Mastership (and he never gives to his own children; maybe in rare cases if anybody is fit) leaves the place. Guru Nanak had two sons; both started mastership at home, but He gave it to Guru Angad who left that place and went to some other place. Guru Angad had so many children. He gave It to Amar Das among us, you see, and the children started their mastership at home. In all other cases this happens similarly. So Master told me, "All right, you go. Wherever you go, your Master is with you and the people will come up. Where there's honey, all bees will come up." This is but natural. That is the background of why I mentioned those letters, the original letters in Punjabi. The book was issued in the name of Baba Sawan Singh. It was His graciousness; He did it. So I told you that what has been translated in English and printed in "A Great Saint Baba Jaimal Singh-His Life and Teachings" are the most important of the letters. As for those not translated by me, I cannot vouchsafe the correctness of the translations thereof. But, you will get some good out of it because Spiritual Gems was wonderful writing. Everything that is given in the original language is to the point. In translation ... what happened to the Bible? you know. There were so many translations; translations then, now again more translations. "I give you all herbs and seeds for meat. Take all the herbs as meat." That's the original translation and we have seen how it has been differently translated. "Don't use intoxicants." When President Kennedy was killed, I saw on television the throwing of wine, giving of that outer intoxication. They use wine. Instead of the inner intoxication, they have wine intoxication from outer means. So you see how these things get started. Kennedy's friend, the owner of fourteen big ships, was initiated by me. He had to come down to Southern United States after the tour. Kennedy also had a mind to be initiated, and he was assassinated on the way. He was a good man in himself, Kennedy. We were talking about his work in our homes. He was wide awake.
    So, how do all these things come about? There's also reason. Inner intoxication or coming in contact with the Word within you is something else. We restrict the use of any intoxicants which give vent to intoxication outside; the effects are what I've seen on television. For want of practical people, these things come about from within religions. So religions say there's God, there's soul, there's manbody. Why all these different cults and all these different factions? Because they've forgotten the original thing. Now there's more than 700 cults. Really there is only religion: re means back, ligio means to bind. To bind your soul back with God is religion. These are the facts as things were, you see. They have taken the social bodies as their religion.
    What you can express in the English language, your mother language, I cannot express exactly in Punjabi. I find I am wanting for words to express my thoughts from Punjabi into English for want of vocabulary you might say; there is great beauty in the original words. You know better than me in English, do you not? There are some words in Punjabi you cannot express in English. I have got some bit of English; I cannot relay that I know too much. There are words in the mother language that cannot be translated.
    When I went to Louisville and gave talks there, one man who is one of the three most learned people in the world met me. He said, "You're the only man who has appealed to me so far in life." I don't know much English, only just enough to serve my purpose, to bring home something, but it is not exact. Mother language is something else, is it not? So language loses in translation. The exact meanings are spoiled, I tell you, are they not? So men who translate what they have understood from other people who have interpreted for their own understanding. If they have not known what the Science really is, they go amiss. -- has translated the Sikh literature. He has done a little bit better but even then they do not know the Science. So how can they do full justice to the work? In the instances I am quoting you, the men who were ignorant about the Science translated in English whatever they were told. There are so many changes in the verses of the Bible. I had some opportunity when I was in service to have a superintendent in my division who was a Christian. He was a librarian from Lahore, so he brought two of the best books in his library to me every week. I read through all those books, old literature, for a year or two. I know that I cannot exaggerate, but I think I learned more about Christianity than the Christians themselves. This is because they have not known the basic principles therein. Many people do not know old literature. It is through this old literature that I got a literary insight into Christianity. I cannot say that I've known everyone, but I've had correspondence with teachers and with teachings of other Masters; so that is why I feel I am an authority in this Work. So God was teaching me, you see. I studied the Persian language up to the highest standard in order to understand books of Mohammedan literature in the original language.

I remember reading the quotation somewhere, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven.

    Yes.

Is not a rope going through a needle more logical?

    This means those whose attention is expanded in so many outer respects, that's all. Translations cannot be taken literally. Those who know the Science, know. They can express better because it is a matter of seeing. Those who have seen gave out the right interpretation - which can only be given by somebody who knows the Science, who has seen. Those who would like to give out at the level of intellect, cannot do full justice to It.

I know two initiates who in the beginning read ____ and they found contradictions in it and your teachings, very minor ones, but it created a lot of problems in their minds.

    Yes, I explained that. That is a translation of letters, not the original. I just issued the jist of all those letters in separate headings in Baba Jaimal Singh. I did not quote exact letters. Out of those letters I've got with me, I gave instructions on the particular aspects of spirituality under different headings in The Life of Baba Jaimal Singh, you see. There are many things in the original letters - so many letters. The jist of the letters which pertain to the Science, I gave out in Baba Jaimal Singh. You'll find teachings there, which are the jist of those letters written by Baba Jaimal Singh. So I sorted out from the originals which I had in my possession. So now you'll find differences, qualitative, you see. Yes?

I was reading _____ by _____and I was amazed in one section it says that the Master gave initiation to over 700 people. And out of that only two saw light; only two saw light, he said in the book.

    Then here, last day, Master gave to 653 people, all saw. Over 200 had the Master's Form. There are some who read the charged words. I say the teachings are the same, the words are the same, but they aren't charged. So what is the difference? All right, I got a letter from _____; he is now a forerunner of the _____ group. He wrote me a letter. "I have got a letter in which it is written if any man wants inner experience, his life will be cut short by two years." I've got that letter. Now they're afraid of asking for any experience. Would you like to have your life cut short by two years?
    Has your life been cut short? So these things are issued to serve their purpose. Men do not even know the exact position for meditation. He wrote me, "Does meditation do anything in the nervous system?" he asked. I said, "No, man becomes more fresh. It is the bread of life." Such like people are their leaders.

That's a delicate point but several of us have talked it over one to one. When we hear group leaders, our group leaders, giving really erroneous information, should we just keep our mouth shut or what can we do? Just write to You or what can we do?

    Just one thing, one thing I tell you. It is better not to talk in public where there are the new as well as the old ones. What you have detected, others may not even have thought of it. Tell him privately, "This is wrong."

It's been done.

    If he does not do it, write to me. That is why I now issued one circular for group leaders only to determine how far they have understood the scriptures. With all that, they simply ruminate, never going deeply into that. As I told you, most of the group leaders get less experience than you people here. Why? They simply think they are bosses. Some are doing like that, I don't blame the whole Faith, you see. Truth remains Truth. If your life is changed, that will appeal to everyone. If I am working for the same cause and you are working for the same cause, I consider myself as you are, on the way to perfection. Then why all these dissensions, one fighting with the other?

Then I would prefer not to be a group leader.

    I will tell you, if you become a boss, it is better not to become a group leader. If you want to serve in the real sense, set an example and say what you have come to know. Others say, "Master has told me like that." Why do you act and pose? What things are clear to you - all right, say. But what has never been clear to you before, and you say, "Oh, I have seen this and that thing, come follow me," this is not the way up. If you've become the mouthpiece of your Guru or the Master and be true to your own self, then it is very good to become a group leader. You have been chosen for that; to set an example to others. It does not mean that you should not set an example if you are not a group leader, but the group leaders should be ideal persons, you see. They should live up to the teachings to the maximum. If they have not become Masters, they at least have been on the way for so many years and must have developed by this time. If they have not developed, then how can they change? Yes?

How can somebody be a true mouthpiece of the Master and contemplate doing His Will unless he has risen above body consciousness?

    Look here, the criterion of a Master has already been given very clearly in my books. Who can give you some experience, some capital to start with, more or less according to each man's background? If He can give you something to start with, there's hope that He may give you more. Then, regularity pays, and living up to what we are told pays. These Things were given, as I already told you many times, to those people who lived with the Master for years. They prepared their vessels for It and then Master gave something. Now, how can you remain with the Master for long? So He gives you something the very first day, more or less, of course. Something to start with; some get say ten talents, some get forty talents, some get fifty talents, some may get five talents. They get and that will be developed. So those who develop from day to day get more and more. For that: blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Purity of heart is required. Now these things are given to you straight off, the very first day, and you're asked to maintain very strict personal introspection. Do it. The more you'll do it, the more you'll progress by regular practice and also by weeding out all failures. There's no doubt about it. You get something and that has to be developed. Those who are satisfied without getting anything, all right; why should I interfere? Those who want It, they get It. If you don't want to come, then that's all right. If they're satisfied with nothing, that's all right. So that letter showed "scriptures say two years of life is cut down if you want any experience." I will show you that letter when we go to Delhi. Religious experiences stand ... Things of a religious nature stand more definitely than others. Some facts I cannot give out in books. Why should I want to create any controversy. Yes?

I've been led to believe that you cannot speak for the Master unless you can get the Master's thought transference directly at the time of your Satsang.

    Until then, until then, just think of the Master and go on. You're helped. Thoughts will continue. Thoughts will come of which you would never think. He'll make a channel of you. If you repose, sit up, go on-you'll have it. That's a concession to those who are chosen. But where there's ego ... "I have become a boss" ... You've become the elder brother, that's all right. You cannot become the Father. I have given many things of this nature in my circulars. Nobody should stand between the Master and the initiate. If anybody stands, considers himself to be husbandlike - he cannot be husbandlike. He can be an elder brother but cannot be husband or husbandlike, you see. If that man has little or nothing in his bank and you take what he gives out as the ideal, you're gone and he is also doomed, is it not so?