Yes, what news have you brought?

Master, one old lady sends You her love.

All right, could you give it to me? [Master chuckles.] You have brought swcet remembrance of her. Anybody missing?

Yes, just one lad.

Yes, who?

________ has gone to see about his ticket.

Now. And your companion? He's always at the back chewing his moustache around. [chuckles.] That's all right. Yes, please, come on

Beloved, Guru Nanak has said, "By churning the ocean of the body, a marvel I beheld. Guru is God and God is Guru and betwixt them is no difference, O Nanek. And the Guru causes the supreme treasure of the knowledge of God to enter into my heart. It entered into my heart that the Guru and Godd are one."

Yes this is his finding. What do you Find?

The same thing exactly.

I wish it. I wish it. Who can say so, is one with God. That's all? I will suggest you go deep down more. So what news have you brought?

Everything is proceeding quite nicely, but I understand you want to cut back quite a bit. ( Referring to plans for the Unity of Man Center in the United States.)

Ah, you think I want to cut back. I didn't want anything to cut! [chuckles.] There has been a wrong interpretation. If all group-leaders gathered to raise schools, hospitals, and everything, then? . . . I sent out a circular stating the intention. In the West you have got free medical services from the very birth for the needy. You have got free education; old men have got their old age pensions, unemployed people have got unemployment insurance. So these necessities are already provided by Government. No need of multiplying that. You have now got everything. In India it is different. We have got no old men's homes. Similarly with other things Unity of Man Center here means the unity of man at the level of man. Even atheists, those who do not believe in God, are treated. So go on with your attitudes at the level of man. However, they may have some come for meditation in the ordinary facilities you have already got there. This is the right interpretation. Perhaps that was taken in the wrong way. You're headlong down, but you've done splendid work. What was done—all right—have it for only those who want peace for meditation. One, two, three, whatever is convenient. What did Mr. Sirrine tell you the other day?

I received a circular from him, then I spoke at length with him on the phone.

And again you talked to him very boldly, "What is all this?" And what was the result of your conversation?

The result was that we decided to cut out the home for the aged, the hospital,the house of language, the orphanage.

That cuts down on your labor.

The question was whether or not we should still have the school for the children, since families living there would like to send their children to a good school.

That is to be decided definitely. Now, of for each group of initiates you must have a school, must have a hospital, must have—It is all very expensive. This small facility, little attendance, is for those who go for a retreat, say for a month. We keep it for meditation. For those who want to get medical treatment, there must be a hospital nearby. If anyone should develop sickness in that forlorn place and there is no immediate medical aid there, you can provide barc requirements for them. So anyway, not all groups should do that.

In other words, it's all right to do something small at the Unity of Man Center but you're not encouraging everyone to do if all across the country. Is that it?

Don't manipulate. [He chuckles.] What I say is very clear. When it is a necessity, I say for those who are over there who go sick, send for help to take them to the hospital. But suppose anybody gets sick and you run two hundred miles to get a doctor? For the time being, you see, temporary first aid. It is not to become a regular town; you have a town there now.

There's a town in --- nearby.

Are you going to raise a town and county? [chuckles.]

I know, but what about people coming there to live on the land, those who are initiated, who would live there.

That is only on your invitation. I don't want to make it an avocation. First stand on your own legs. How many people can you provide for now? Two, three, four. If you have children there, provide culture. But that is not the main purpose. Purpose is meditation.

We were having one meditation in June and at the end of this month.

That's all right, but it s not a hotel. All right, any questions please? You're ready. Come on, come on.

Sometimes during Simran some people see a big splash, a big splash like light. Should it be taken as the Big Star?

Star? Yes?

Yes, and when that approaches, it is like coming towards us; it means that we are crossing it?

You need not make any effort. Just put whole attention into it. You'll cross there.

Beloved, I think that she said that they see a big splash of light—not the star. And she wanted to know if that was the star and are they crossing it.

All right. Look to the middle—that will also burst. Further way will be up. Sometimes that light seems to make a splash.

Here's another one, Master. And sometimes also they see purple, a big purple circle surrounded by golden light or white light and it is also like coming towards us, you see.

Is it converging or revolving?

Sometimes it is steady and sometimes it like revolves.

Don't be revolving with it. Look in the middle. If it is converging then look deeper. That will burst.

Yes, thank you, Master.

Yes, come up. Yes. Come on.

Would you talk about when one is despondent on progress? They are not progressing, so they get despondent.

Why are they despondent? Look to your diary. Why are you despondent? Your meditations are not fruitful. Your mind is overflowing with foreign thoughts other than God. For a while, close down one picture and open the door to God. Do one thing at a time, wholly and solely. Open one drawer and attend to it fully. If your body is here while you're rambling outside, then? That way you'll never be despondent. So that is why I say: "look to your diary." This is due to the angle of your outer attention or not doing meditations correctly or your gathering of so many paraphernalia with you when you go to God. He is all alone, You must go all alone. He wants you to come to Him all alonc. Hc doesn't want your body to go along with you. He doesn't want your intellect to go along with you. You see? That is why we pray, "Oh God, we are grateful to you; for You have given this secret not to the worldly-wise but to the babes."

Worldly wise cannot go on. Understand first, and then do it. Your intellect is for understanding. First grasp it. Then go on. Further thing starts only when the intellect is docile. When it is standing still, spirituality starts.

[The missing man returns.]

We were worrying about you. "One man was missing." Thank God you are found. [Everyone chuckles.] Yes, anybody else. Come up. Yes, please.

In the book Godman you mentioned a few of the laws like the law of sympathy, the law of supply and demand, but most of what You talk about seems to be of Grace. And I wondered if You could comment on how Grace overrides everything, the Grace of the Master.

Repeat again, please. Repeat again. Not hurriedly, but you'll find in your own question understanding.

Would You mind commenting about . . .

[teasingly] I'll mind, surely, but all right.

The meaning of Grace.

Grace?

Yes, Master's Grace.

Further, what do you want further? This could be so many things.

And how it overrides these other things like the law of supply and demand, the law of sympathy, the law of Karma.

When you are a mother, your young child requires help. You help, you see. There is nobody to look after her. On cold nights she does not allow the child to lose any heat. She gives her own blanket to the child. First He gives you food for eating, drinking, then many things come and go to help which are unasked for. With all your efforts you cannot even rise above. He comes to help you. You say, "How come?" This is from Him. No return Grace comes..He requires no compensation, no return. Just as mothers always have pity, grace for the child, so is Master's love. With His little thought you weep like anything, do you follow? His very look is inspiring.

When you see somebody very happy, through eyes, they illuminate. The whole atmosphere will be charged, is it not? Grace is a matter of no compensation. For the matter of Grace, as I told you, is as the child-mother relationship. So naturally [it is] that he takes you above the Law of "as you sow, so shall you reap." For a while you rise above your body consciousness; He raises you above your level of "as you sow, so shall you reap."

So Grace—what does Grace mean? Now I will tell you an example which comes from the Koran. One man left his hearth and home and went into the jungle in his very childhood. There was no water, no food. God made arrangements to quench his thirst by providing a fresh running stream for water which was always flowing. He used to drink that water, and bathe in it and do penances. All his life was spent in that way, you see so ultimately he had to go He was presented to God. This man had veneration for all, left his hearth and home, all enjoyments, all attachments, etc. God said, "Well, look here, we forgive you out of Grace." He said, "I have killed myself, I left hearth and home, I remained in the jungle, have undergone all penances, with that you forgive me out of Grace? I should be compensated, I've done so much." God said, "All right, tell me what you have done. I'll compensate." He kept quiet. To keep quiet means half consent, does it not? God said, "Well, look here, there was no spring of water for miles. Then one spring was raised there for you. There was a tree that gave one big full pomegranate, fully ripe, free. That was done only for your sake. Take it in compensation for all your, penances." Do you get the true message? Justice and grace are two different things, mind that. Justice and grace are two different things. He said, "All right, forgive me for any reason you like!"

So have you read Jap Ji? In the last part He refers to the pure of heart having the key that unlocks the door to the Kingdom of the Lord. Pure among us. It is not by force that you can have that thing. Forget yourself for a while like a babe. Babe has no self. If the inner eye is open that is the level we are at. We are not the doers, there is no self. That comes of itself. He would like everybody to become a King but cannot. For that all are crying in agony. You cannot entune yourself to God without Grace. Not by effort, just Grace. Look here, Yogis have taken hundreds of years to vacate the body, to leave the lower chakras. Hundreds of years. You get it the very first day. Is it not Grace? Nobody can do it of himself: be released from coming and going. Because as you think so you become. If you sow the seeds, you'll harvest them unless His Grace descends to you. So that is forgiveness, grace and compassion. Ordinary man lights up a heaven but there is darkness underneath. The lamps are burning and lighting down. The spreading light ends and there is darkness again. One Law is justice and the other is grace: forgiveness and grace.

It so happened in my life that my wife had to come from an outside station and I went to receive her. She was in a multitude and at this point [a thief] cut off the pocket book from her. The police appointment for that purpose caught that man red-handed, excuse me. Now that policeman wanted me to report to the station. They called the complaint, you see. Itold them, "Well, it's only money, it's all right. God forgive him." "No, no, this should stop." They called him to go to the police station with my wife. you know these thieves are not attended properly. I told them, "I have to go to my office. I can't stay here." "All right, it will be five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen . . ." Fifteen minutes passed, one half hour passed, an hour passed. They went to the superintendent in charge. "Well, I have to go. It is for their sake I have come.'' It was recorded. They were just trying to break that boy, striking him blows. "I have not committed, I have not committed . . ." so the case came to the court. I was there and the police man was there. I had to attend; my wife was away. She never attended. That man who had committed that thing was there and a relative was also there. Judge began the case.

He asked, "Between justice and grace which is greater? Is justice greater or is grace greater?' I told him, "Grace is." Justice is not done in society. Then the men said, "No, no it is not so." "Excuse me, justice is never done This is the right thing I am telling you." When grace descends, there is forgiveness. So I told him, "A greater man is he who, with right understanding, forgives. Look here, this man [the Judge] wants to forgive. He's advocated for this purpose, but they won't let him." So I attended the court. The judge was there I told him, "Dear friend, if you could let him off for any excuse, you'd be a great advocate." First I had to talk with him. "Was there any complaint against him in any court before?" He said, "No." Then he said, "All right, let him off in the morning." Let him off in the morning. Now what happens? Whenever I pass there, they all say, "Here, here, here he is." This you hear: Grace washes away all—everything. There is no compensation for grace. That's a good question. I was once called as one of the juror. in the big court. That was a very easy case never seen before. [ Master leaned forward, looked very serious as He seemed to relive that moment in the courtroom. He paused before continuing.] It struck me: "Judge not others so that you may not be judged." I requested from the judge "Will you kindly let me go? I am not to judge." He was also a Sawan Singh initiate. Between grace and justice . . . He who judges another man is never satisfied. He will go on. There are small courts, high courts, privy courts, it goes on four-five years.

When wrangling goes on between two preachers, each man says, "I have the right to sow the seeds of righteousness," you see.

Now do you understand what Grace is? Out of Grace you are all forgiven. With avatars there is no grace. Hafiz says, ultimately at the end, he came to know that the kingdom of the Saints is of forgiveness. With what I tell you to do, you can leave the body in minutes, in no time, to rise above body from the start—those whose inner eyes are opened to see the light of God. Is this not Grace?

Look to your destiny, to our Master. It is very good of Him.

In my life once, on a Sunday morning, I was in the Satsang Hall. I had to give a talk. Just when it was about to start, I came to learn that the Master had come to Lahore. Now, I was of two minds; what to do? Should I start with Satsang, give a talk, or go to Master. So I decided, "I am ordered." I attended to His Satsang. That was 12:00. Later in the afternoon, I ran up to the place where He was supposed to be, but He had returned to Beas. I could not decide whether I had done right or wrong. so I ran up by train, reached there by three or four o'clock. I related all this to Him and told Him that I did not know whether I had done right or wrong. He said, "I am glad you've done your duty. I ordered you." Masters have respect for duty done without any consideration of whether you get anything in return or not. I had a young daughter who was sick. She died at night. I wrapped her up. Next morning I had to give a talk at Satsang, so I askcd somebody to take care of the body and told him not to make a fuss about it. The people said, "What sort of man is he?" Truth is there, that was according to the teachings of the Master. His Word should be Law. It is the Bible truth: Master's Koran. If you stick to it, such-like see in me their fate. Now do you follow what is meant by Grace?

There are so many things. I got a telephone message from my wife, "Your son is dangerously ill—come at once." On the way I met another Satsangi who was very upset. "What's the matter with you?" He answered, "My son is sick. He has been sick for three weeks now." "Did you have him treated?" "I have got no money." So what did I do, I went to the son, called for thc doctor, got medicine for him, stayed there three four hours and helped him with his son. Then I went to see my son. This is to "Love your neighbor as thyself."

An initiate is more than a neighbor also. Is it not so? It is a matter of living. Saying is something else, living is something else. Therein we see love. Now we'll find this is again very reciprocal. In that way we can say, "Oh Lord, we are grateful to You for you have given this secret not to the worldly-wise, but to the babes" in whom there is no ill will, no doership, no compensation, no thought for return. Yes, any more? That was a good question. If we only learn that much about it. All right. God bless you. Food time is come. Go Jolly.

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